Wooo.... Yet another post so shortly after the last one... This will never end well... ;-)
Anyway. But as soon as a fandom goes rampant, I kinda have to post about it. Either because I am amused or because it annoys me. This time? It mostly amuses me. :-) *grabs popcorn*
And before I continue, yes... This will be about Bills tattoo and tattoos in general. You don't like tattoos? That is PERFECTLY fine! You don't like Bills tattoo? That is PERFECTLY fine to. :-) Everyone has a right to their own opinion.
As you who have been around here a while probably know, I have five tattoos myself, planning two more as soon as I can afford them. (When I get enough cash for them which might take a long time yet...) I love tattoos. I think it is really sexy and/or a way to express oneself.
If you don't know what my tattoos look like, you can check this post: Right HERE when my latest was brand new. Might add, I am a librarian. I have a lip-piercing and plenty piercings in my ears to. Have this been a hindrance in getting a job? No. At least not what I have noticed. Strangely, the opposite, since most librarians I have talked to have said there needs to be variety in all lines of work.
I've been to the hospital and had doctors that are traditional muslims with special hijabs, jews with that little kippah and also those with tattoos and piercings. So... Why not a librarian, right?
Currently those tattoos I have are easy to hide. They are on my upper arms and my lower legs and my back. They aren't really visible half the year. Only during spring and summer. The new tattoos though that I plan to make are for my lower arms, so they'll be visible at all times. Yes, I've talked with a few colleagues about it, and I've yet to get more then one negative comment about it (she retired a month ago).
What I am trying to say is, if I had money... I'd be near to covered in tattoos by now. No kidding. I have soooo many ideas for tattoos for my body, you wouldn't believe. All of them with special meaning for me.
And there's the keyword right there. Tattoos with special meaning.
Yeah, I think my tattoos look cool. And I make sure to find tattoo-artists that are really good artists and know what the fuck they are doing. But all, every single one have meaning FOR ME! (Yes, even Uncle Scrooge on my back...)
Now Bill Kaulitz has done a pretty radical tattoo. A hand-tattoo, a glove if you will. It is very radical. Making a small tattoo on my hand, yeah... I'd like that. And probably will in the future. But I am just a regular Joe, so to speak. Having a big hand-tattoo would hurt my career, sadly. Regular ones, no problem.
Bill Kaulitz though don't have that problem. And considering how the fandom wanks like fuck right now, I'd say it more helps him. No matter if fans hate it, or like it... They sure talk about it, don't they?
The tattoo in question:




Copyright to Bill Kaulitz, his tattoo-artist and BTKtwins.Com.
And I do believe there is a meaning behind that tattoo. The motives are very classical. The swallow... the lily... and the bones. No new motives. They've been around for... well, years and years. And looking at Bills old tattoos, there are clearly meanings behind every single one. Even the one he did when he was just a little kid. More then just being a symbol for the band.
Oh, and then there are those fans that are going into rage that Bill is destroying himself! Even commenting saying such things on that App. Dude... Whatever he does, even if he ends up as covered as Nikki Sixx (photo) and Tommy Lee (photo), it is HIS DECISION! And only his.
I know for one that I can get a bit annoyed when people question my tattoos and piercings. And to get it thrown at your face... Yeah. Not cool, you fans. You wanna wank about it? Do so in your journals, in your Tumblrs, on your Twitter. Hell, write fanfic about it to get it out, whatever... But don't write it in the app. For gawds sake. The twins are reaching out a hand (no pun intended) and try to communicate with their fans. Be cool and respect that, yeah? Do not post about how they destroy themselfs and how they surely fuck each other since you are such a hardcore twincester... (Yes, I've seen comments on that subject too on said app. Disgusting.)
Yes, I am ranting, I know. And this post is all over the place.
But in conclusion? I like the tattoo. It look really really nice. No wonder. Los Angeles, USA has some of the best tattoo-artists in the world. I'd sell a leg to get a tattoo from one of them, seriously... The detail-work on Bills tattoo is quite amazing, especially considering it is on the hand. It is NOT easy to get detail like that on a hand. Also, it must have hurt like a motherfucker considering there is not much subcutaneous fat on your hand. The bone is RIGHT under the skin. So you think his hand look fat? Dude... It is probably still swollen... And will most likely be for a while more.
Not a Bill-girl, as you all know. He is not my favorite in the band (least favorite, more like). BUT! I do admire his attitude and his bravery to do whatever the fuck he wants no matter what people tell him. :-)
So, Bill?
ROCK THE FUCK ON, DEAR BOY!
It looks good. :-) And those that just like you for your looks? Well... :-) They'll find another girly boy to look at, I am sure. ;-)
Anyway. But as soon as a fandom goes rampant, I kinda have to post about it. Either because I am amused or because it annoys me. This time? It mostly amuses me. :-) *grabs popcorn*
And before I continue, yes... This will be about Bills tattoo and tattoos in general. You don't like tattoos? That is PERFECTLY fine! You don't like Bills tattoo? That is PERFECTLY fine to. :-) Everyone has a right to their own opinion.
As you who have been around here a while probably know, I have five tattoos myself, planning two more as soon as I can afford them. (When I get enough cash for them which might take a long time yet...) I love tattoos. I think it is really sexy and/or a way to express oneself.
If you don't know what my tattoos look like, you can check this post: Right HERE when my latest was brand new. Might add, I am a librarian. I have a lip-piercing and plenty piercings in my ears to. Have this been a hindrance in getting a job? No. At least not what I have noticed. Strangely, the opposite, since most librarians I have talked to have said there needs to be variety in all lines of work.
I've been to the hospital and had doctors that are traditional muslims with special hijabs, jews with that little kippah and also those with tattoos and piercings. So... Why not a librarian, right?
Currently those tattoos I have are easy to hide. They are on my upper arms and my lower legs and my back. They aren't really visible half the year. Only during spring and summer. The new tattoos though that I plan to make are for my lower arms, so they'll be visible at all times. Yes, I've talked with a few colleagues about it, and I've yet to get more then one negative comment about it (she retired a month ago).
What I am trying to say is, if I had money... I'd be near to covered in tattoos by now. No kidding. I have soooo many ideas for tattoos for my body, you wouldn't believe. All of them with special meaning for me.
And there's the keyword right there. Tattoos with special meaning.
Yeah, I think my tattoos look cool. And I make sure to find tattoo-artists that are really good artists and know what the fuck they are doing. But all, every single one have meaning FOR ME! (Yes, even Uncle Scrooge on my back...)
Now Bill Kaulitz has done a pretty radical tattoo. A hand-tattoo, a glove if you will. It is very radical. Making a small tattoo on my hand, yeah... I'd like that. And probably will in the future. But I am just a regular Joe, so to speak. Having a big hand-tattoo would hurt my career, sadly. Regular ones, no problem.
Bill Kaulitz though don't have that problem. And considering how the fandom wanks like fuck right now, I'd say it more helps him. No matter if fans hate it, or like it... They sure talk about it, don't they?
The tattoo in question:
Copyright to Bill Kaulitz, his tattoo-artist and BTKtwins.Com.
And I do believe there is a meaning behind that tattoo. The motives are very classical. The swallow... the lily... and the bones. No new motives. They've been around for... well, years and years. And looking at Bills old tattoos, there are clearly meanings behind every single one. Even the one he did when he was just a little kid. More then just being a symbol for the band.
Oh, and then there are those fans that are going into rage that Bill is destroying himself! Even commenting saying such things on that App. Dude... Whatever he does, even if he ends up as covered as Nikki Sixx (photo) and Tommy Lee (photo), it is HIS DECISION! And only his.
I know for one that I can get a bit annoyed when people question my tattoos and piercings. And to get it thrown at your face... Yeah. Not cool, you fans. You wanna wank about it? Do so in your journals, in your Tumblrs, on your Twitter. Hell, write fanfic about it to get it out, whatever... But don't write it in the app. For gawds sake. The twins are reaching out a hand (no pun intended) and try to communicate with their fans. Be cool and respect that, yeah? Do not post about how they destroy themselfs and how they surely fuck each other since you are such a hardcore twincester... (Yes, I've seen comments on that subject too on said app. Disgusting.)
Yes, I am ranting, I know. And this post is all over the place.
But in conclusion? I like the tattoo. It look really really nice. No wonder. Los Angeles, USA has some of the best tattoo-artists in the world. I'd sell a leg to get a tattoo from one of them, seriously... The detail-work on Bills tattoo is quite amazing, especially considering it is on the hand. It is NOT easy to get detail like that on a hand. Also, it must have hurt like a motherfucker considering there is not much subcutaneous fat on your hand. The bone is RIGHT under the skin. So you think his hand look fat? Dude... It is probably still swollen... And will most likely be for a while more.
Not a Bill-girl, as you all know. He is not my favorite in the band (least favorite, more like). BUT! I do admire his attitude and his bravery to do whatever the fuck he wants no matter what people tell him. :-)
So, Bill?
ROCK THE FUCK ON, DEAR BOY!
It looks good. :-) And those that just like you for your looks? Well... :-) They'll find another girly boy to look at, I am sure. ;-)
Tags:
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:30 pm (UTC)i think the re-done wolf is my fave.
i agree about bill. and personally, i love his new tat. when he said the other day that it was still healing, i thought, 'wtf could you have possibly gotten that would still be healing after 2 weeks?' i was not expecting the whole hand. and yes, that would probably hurt like a bitch and still be swollen.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:07 pm (UTC)I think Bill's hand is still swollen. It is interesting to see so many comments on Tumblr going about how he destroyed his hand and it doesn't look that delicate anymore... The slenderness and delicate feel of his hand will come back, I believe. Once the swelling is gone. :-P Which will most likely take some time yet. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:31 pm (UTC)Those boys won't ever be able to make everyone happy, ever. Why everyone can't be happy that it obviously makes him happy I'll never know.
As far as the app comments go, good grief. I refuse to comment on any thing just due to guilt by association. I just wish people would show a little restraint and think about what they are saying. Once it's out there you can't take it back.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:04 pm (UTC)Yeah, the app-comments are just.... Well. There are no real good words for how horrible many of them are. I am not commenting either. I just look at the photos and the vids. That's it.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:30 pm (UTC)(have a little updat you might like on my own journal, just saying ;) )
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:29 pm (UTC)When I got my eyebrow piercing, my mother's first comment was "why are you ruining your beautiful face with these piercings?"
Seriously? Ruining? I wasn't perfect in the first place!
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:44 pm (UTC)The app though... it's somewhere between personal and very public. I am not surprised that people write from their hearts on it, even if it may seem hurtful. I'm pretty sure Tom and Bill are ready to take a bit of such, even if some of the comments stink. And they shouldn't be there.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 10:58 pm (UTC)I have stopped reading the comments on the app (yes, I have it despite not quiet being a twin-girl). I have head-desked so hard there is a mark in my desk, seriously. I do see screenshots on Tumblr on occasion though. And when I saw the comment about twincest I was just... o.O WTH! And went into a rage here in my home. SO disrespectful!!! I am quite convinced the twins knows about twincest and such what the fans write in fanfics about them (they are not idiots after all), but to throw it at their faces like that... No... Just... HELL no...
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-10 08:14 am (UTC)Even if it's nothing near the rosy-romantic fluff of twincest fanfic, or whatever's in the fanfic, such things as incest happen. Often in sibling relationships where the children are extremely left out to each other, where there is too much responsibility to handle oneself because the adult world turned their back, and where the children have been sexualized by adults around them. All these things apply to Bill and Tom.
And when it happens, it is most often an extremely stressful thing, even in cases where both siblings are consenting. I wish that those who write all kinds of hateful comments, anti-gay or anti-twc, imagine for a moment the scenario that Bill is gay, or some kind of incest happened between Bill and Tom at some point. Imagine the shame and fear they feel already -- what will hateful comments do to help them with that shame and fear?
If Bill is not gay and there was never incest, then I'm sure such comments bother them on the same level as het porn comments or hateful comments about the tattoo. But if Bill is gay, and/or incest ever happened between them, those comments could be really hurtful. That's why I disapprove even of pro-twincest comments in places such as the app: they open up for the hate-comments. And I just don't think either are necessary to plaster in the face of the Kaulitz twins.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-11 12:15 am (UTC)I do believe though that them boys are well aware of what many of their fans write, and play it up for them on stage and during interviews etc. But if it is real? Hell no. I HIGHLY doubt it. Twins are damn close as it is, no need to draw in sex in the mix.
Incest happen. And it is NEVER romantic. NEVER fluffy. AND could NEVER be right. Not in my book. Hell no. Fine if you think so, but me? Fuck no. Stumbled upon a pair of twins who make porn together, and that just... ewww... Fine for them, apparently, but I just got really fucking uncomfortable and disgusted by it.
That doesn't mean though that I'll go throw that in those porn-twins face! I just avoid them. Like the plague. No comments. No nothing.
If it ever came out that the twincest between Bill and Tom would be real? I'd have to take a HUGE fucking step back from the fandom and just... Not be part of it in a looong time, because I'd be so, so disappointed there would be no words for it. They'd definitely lose me as a fan. Easily.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-11 02:22 pm (UTC)If incest happens and it's shameful and bad and something the ones involved wished had never happened, I am sure that hateful comments don't help the feeling of self-worth along. That was the point I was trying to make...
I fully respect your feeling regarding incest that those involved choose to let happen. And I deeply appreciate your stand to stay away from it, rather than showering it with hateful comments. (I don't appreciate the porn twins either, I feel very sorry for them. Or are they just clever businessmen??).
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-12 12:52 am (UTC)I have no wish to shower anyone with hateful comments. What would that serve? Seriously. I am way more mature then that, thank you. Unlike many of the insane girls on that freaking app. As I said, if twincest between Tom and Bill would prove real, I'd just leave. Disgusted, but quietly and sadly, but I would. And that would be the end of that.
It's not hard to find info on them porn twins. They are called Elijah and Milo Peters. I first saw photo shots with them (clothed) and they looked quite comfortable doing that. It wasn't anything worse then Tom and Bill has done. You know? Draped over one another, looking hot for the camera. But then I saw porn shots with them. And even though they acted all cool and comfortable in front of the camera... there was just something in their eyes, you know...? It didn't feel... good. Smart business men or not... I wonder what the real cost for all them money they pull in is....
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-12 08:02 am (UTC)In fanfic I can explore the dynamic I see between them (that exists regardless of twincest or not), and add a sexual relationship that complicates things, and adds spice (since I like drama, and slash). But what happens in fiction is fiction, and what I approve of there isn’t something I automatically approve of in real life. This is a fact I think applies to most readers of fiction (and I think you agree).
I'm not negative in the sense that if it became known Bill and Tom had had any kind of incest relationship (from non-consentual to highly consentual), I would leave fandom or blame them for it. But I wouldn't be positive. I would become extremely worried for them. I would have a thousand questions, and the most pressing ones would be – were any one of them against that incest relationship, but couldn’t get out? Did any one of them suffer? Did/do they both suffer? The next set of questions would regard them both: How are they? I wouldn’t wish the sadness and pain (from personal to societal) of an incest relationship on anyone. And I would wonder about the adults around them, what responsibility they have, etc., etc. And if it became known that any one of the twins had sexually or psychologically abused the other, I would be devastated (I still hope that I wouldn’t turn my back on them as persons; it would be a tragedy with two victims, and in that situation people need support by people who are able to say; “I disapprove your actions, but I support you as a person, and I will support your attempts to break that behavior.” I don’t know if I could, but I hope so).
There is also the question of consent. I have the opinion that if incest between adult siblings is 100 % consensual then there is no victim. Then it’s hard to automatically judge two adults (nota bene: adults) who interact sexually -- if there is absolutely no victim. If Bill and Tom agree 100 % to have sex, up to them. If an adult (nota bene: adult) sister and brother dyad agree 100 % to have sex, up to them.
But in an incest relationships the risk of abuse ( = victim) is so much bigger than in other kinds of relationships and the chance of mutual consent is so much lower. In the case where a sister and brother would have children, then both of them are perpetrators and the child is the victim, and a realtionship with a victim is totally unacceptable in my book. Even in a case where adult (note bene: adult) siblings would say that they are 100 % okay with it, I would always suspect that there is at least a 1 % lie. The "porn twins" are such an example, where both you and I have seen something in their eyes that tell us that their relationship is not healthy, and that there is probably not what can be called 100 % consent in their case (that is: they are both victims, in my way of reasoning).
Between child and parent, there can never be consent, and between child siblings there can never be consent. Children are not mentally and physically developed to make such a decision. And I find it hard to believe that it would be 100 % consent between adult siblings.
All these things taken together make it impossible for me to find the thought of (tw)incest real a positive one.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-19 08:56 pm (UTC)I will however always always see it as something wrong. IF it happens between siblings of any kind in RL, they need help, consent or not. Because having sexual feelings for your sibling, is not normal... not OK. NO MATTER the circumstances. I did read about it somewhere (don't remember where now, of course... have tried to find it, I swear) about a psychologist who wrote about this mental disorder, a doctoral thesis even.
Incest of any kind is not right and very wrong, as I see.
Sadly, there are many, many fans who can't separate fanfic from reality. And that... makes me shudder in horror, quite frankly.
Fanfic is one thing. Reality a whole other story. And some fans... needs to learn that.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-19 10:31 pm (UTC)There is a mental disorder called Pedophilic Disorder which could be assigned to the perpetrator if they fulfil this defintition: "a person 16 years of age or older meets the definition if they have a persistent or predominant sexual preference for prepubescent children at least five years younger than them". The diagnosis includes a specifyer for incest, if the the sexual preference is only incestous and not directed towards children outside the family.
To call "incest" a mental disorder leads the thoughts to the victim also having some kind of disturbance, and that is highly unfortunate. I would like to have a reference to the thesis you mention if you find it.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-23 07:45 pm (UTC)I think we are not quite on the same page on incest, BUT! We are not as far apart as one might first have thought. :-) I am not blaming those that do it. I say they need help. A LOT of help. No matter consent or not. And I got a feeling you don't quite agree with that.
ANYWAY! I wanna thank you for this discussion. :-) It has been interesting, eye-opening AND held in a very polite manner. :-) So thank you for that. I love discussions like this! :-D
And it is IS totally fine to agree do disagree. ;-) One can still be friends, you know? *smile*
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-24 09:21 am (UTC)I totally agree! <3
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-08 11:46 pm (UTC)Well, the comment on the twincest from the app I saw a screenshot of a while ago on Tumblr, and I head-desked so hard I think I left a mark on my desk. :-P Soooo disrespectful, there are no words.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 12:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-10 12:41 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 01:18 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 05:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 01:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 02:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-10 12:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 03:32 am (UTC)Also, your tattoos are really cool! :D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 01:45 pm (UTC)Comments on the app are quite horrible 99% of the time. Hence why I don't read them. :-P
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 04:02 pm (UTC)well, I have more reasons, but I'm not gonna go into them. I just have developed a more anti-tat attitude lately than I had once.
A hand-tat like what Bill has would be basically a death wish ( or a non-employment wish) in a regular job, but that will probably never be his fate (hope not, anyway! Can you see Bill in an office? *dies asI imagine him un-jamming a copier) But Bill is Bill, no matter what I think of it, and he should do what he wants. If it has the meaning it appears to, I can see why its dear to him.
So rock on, Bill, and fuck what others think as long as you're happy. You're not hurting a soul and you're happy, so go you. :)
And those fucking COMMENTS ON THE APP. I would not buy that app if I could - the comments would give me an aneursym, so in this case, my ignorance IS my bliss. Those people come off as ... ugh, no words.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 07:24 pm (UTC)But then again, it is totally cool to not like tattoos! I mean, it is up to everyone to like them or not. Me? I LOVE THEM! And as I said, if I had the money, I would cover myself, dammit... and travel to the tattoo-artists that I know are top of the notch. Now though, I am this side of to poor for that, so... Eh. :-P And if mine sag? Well... *shrug* Tattoos are living art, so... it is just another step, and I will always, always make touchups when needed. :-) Tattoos are for life, meaning you have to take care of them for life to. ;-)
Tattoos like Bill's hand-tattoo are DEFINITELY a career-killer for a regular Joe. Most definitely. I am well aware of that. I wouldn't get one as big, because it wouldn't work. A small one on my hand? Sure! That would not be a problem. But a big one? Nope. But Bill is not a regular Joe, and will most likely never be. :-)
Agreed, he is not hurting a soul, and he is clearly happy with the body-mods he is doing. So rock on, indeed!
The comments on the app is... really something else, yes. I stopped reading them after having the app a day. X-/ It is... so disrespectful, yeah. No words.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 07:58 pm (UTC)P.S Have I told you enough how much I Love the Xena tattoo???
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-10 01:00 am (UTC)And yes... The Tokio Hotel fans that LOOOOOVE Bill Kaulitz and Tom Kaulitz.... Well, most of them (usually the younger ones) can be a bit... crazy, shall we say? As soon as them twins change their hair, clothing, get piercings, or get tattoos... It's just like all hell broke loss. And me? I am sitting by the side-lines eating popcorn. *lol*
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-09 08:01 pm (UTC)(And now I've got serious tattoo-lust... I need another dragon to get a matched set... and a couple bats somewhere, I think. *grins*)
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-10 01:02 am (UTC)I get a tattoo-craving every other or every third year... It's been three years since the last one... *sigh* I have a serious need right now. :-P That Bill Kaulitz sure ain't helping that craving!